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#2523 - 07/23/17 06:49 PM Flavors of Subspace
The Thomas Offline
member

Registered: 10/20/15
Posts: 143
I have been thinking of starting this thread for some time. Anticipation has come up in one of Aspx's recent threads and that ties into what I am going to discuss.

The word "subspace" gets bandied about a great deal. While there is no doubt that it is a very real experience I believe it is not a singular phenomenon that differs merely in intensity. Instead I believe it comes in a variety of different flavors. Some of those I have experienced and will describe phenomenologically. I will speculate about some others. I will also speculate about neurochemicals even though I am often critical of the type of thinking that reduces the significance of Hamlet to a peptide.

My sessions are mostly masochistic but I am not a purist in that regard (some masos deny being subs at all. I am not one of those) A session is like a good martini. Pain is the gin but some submissive vermouth is needed.

Many of my sessions produce at least 4 different types of Subspace.

First there is presession subspace. Strange as it may sound the two most intense episodes of subspace that I have ever experienced were thinking about the session before it started. In both instances I couldn't sleep which ironically had a negative impact on the session. My neurochemical speculation is that this is mostly a combination of testosterone and adrenaline. For those less maso and more subby the vasopressin plus oxytocin combo probably plays a part.

Then there is session subspace. Added to the chemicals that produce presession subspace there are the endorphins. This is where I think maso subspace differs from other subspace. Though I have a suspicion that adrenaline is extra important for those guys into humiliation.

In many CP sessions there is a bifurcation of my consciousness into one part of me that wants it to end and another part that wants it to continue. When the session is over there is what I call immediate post session subspace. This is the most different flavor of subspace. It is a strong feeling of relief and relaxation. In its most intense forms it is like the world has been recreated anew. My speculation is this involves GABA and serotonin.

And lastly there is next day subspace. Having trouble sitting the next day can once again arouse erotic feelings though still with a tinge of contentment that is hard to explain to someone who is not a maso. Note if it is my back not my butt that is sore this experience is much weaker. Once again testosterone is playing a role but without any adrenaline.

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#2525 - 07/24/17 12:41 AM Re: Flavors of Subspace [Re: The Thomas]
Mistress Ayn Offline

addict

Registered: 10/13/15
Posts: 460
Loc: Atlanta, GA
What a fabulous topic, thomas. I am fascinated by the chemistry of sex, subspace, pain, etc. I am going to post a piece on My board that a sub wrote for Me about neurochemicals and chastity. It will compliment this post nicely.

I have experienced what I believe is close to what subs feel in post session subspace. It was after My first acupuncture session. I felt that extreme relaxation and contentment you talk about, to such an extent that I didn't trust Myself to drive for about an hour. It actually took eating a snack to bring Me back down to earth. I understand why subs chase this feeling. I have never felt it before or since.

Of course, there is Domme Space and that's very hard for Me to describe. There are two distinctly different feelings for Me. One is during session. The best way I can describe it is a connection with the sub that is possibly empathetic. They appear to be losing themselves and I can make eye contact or make a physical connection that feels like it links Me to them and I get this dreamy, euphoric feeling that is just hard to describe. I have also become light headed in extreme S&M sessions and feel an irresistible need to lay hands on the sub (usually on the chest or back) and create a physical energy loop. It's really quite amazing.

Then there is a post session buzz where My body literally feels like it is tingling or humming. My best guess is that it is adrenaline because it will give Me the ability to go right into the next session without any energy drop and sometimes I have to watch Myself because My energy level may be higher than the new sub's.

Fascinating stuff.
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#2530 - 07/24/17 12:37 PM Re: Flavors of Subspace [Re: Mistress Ayn]
teddymishka Offline
stranger

Registered: 01/21/16
Posts: 20
Mistress Ayn, I agree with you that this a great topic. I have been very lucky to experience real subspace on many different occasions and through four different types of activities with two different Mistresses. The journey to that point can happen quickly or very slowly depending on what is being done so here you are.

The first time I experienced subspace was through an extended flogging and single-tail whipping session where I was brought along slowly over a 60-minute window, through a crescendo of increasing intensity, until I reached a point of “stillness” where I literally stood up straight and my breathing slowed down and I would grunt with every strike. No matter how hard the Mistress hit me, drawing blood with my hits, I did not move and was floating outside of my body. It was a vessel and I reached a point where I felt no pain only hearing the sound of the strike. This happened at least 5 or 6 times over a 2-year period and 2 different Mistresses have been able to get me there.

The second time was having needles done in my back and my reaction was completely different and the feeling of subspace was also different. We learned that when I have more than 10 needles in my back my mind floats and I start drifting off, but when it goes above 25 and then passes 50 I cannot think clearly and lose the power of speech. I am literally a vegetable on the table barely feeling anything but the clouds around me and it takes a while to come down. After care when I get above 75 needles is essential as my body is filled with electricity that does not seem to go anywhere and neither can I until it dissipates.

However, when needles are done in my chest, abdomen and other areas on the front of my body, I can speak but very slowly and I slur the words but my mind is sharp as a tack. I am alert to everything and am aware that I am floating and welcome every time a needle breaks through my skin. I desire more electricity to go higher and higher. It also takes time to come down but not as much as when they are done in my back.

The final altered state I have been able to experience has been most recently with my Goddess and it happened in a strange way. I used to dislike CBT immensely, now I live for it. In this case she began to couple long stretching sessions and extended CBT torture with organic aroma oils and she rubs them on my ears, my temples, and has me inhale them from her hands while she is stretching, hitting and punching my cock and balls. She continues these treatments slowly over an hour or two breaking between the CBT and having me inhale the aromas and I am floating so high that I am asking, no begging for her to torture me more. She has maybe 10 different types of therapeutic oils with different scents and the feelings I get are somewhat different but the one thing they all have in common is that I become serene and extremely submissive willing to surrender to the high subspace I get along with the incredible levels of pain and pleasure that she delivers to me. Truthfully, it is addicting and I know I need it. I just lie there and need to feel the pain and the high and my adrenalin is pumping and my endorphins are firing like crazy.

The final thing all 4 of these have in common is that after any of these sessions I need to crash and at times have slept for as long as 12 hours. Sometimes, I am out of it for 2 to 3 days. These are incredible experiences for which I am truly grateful to the Mistresses who have delivered them, especially my Owner Mistress Mesperyian who has taken me further than anyone else into subspace experiences.


Edited by teddymishka (07/24/17 12:48 PM)

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#2531 - 07/24/17 10:35 PM Re: Flavors of Subspace [Re: Mistress Ayn]
The Thomas Offline
member

Registered: 10/20/15
Posts: 143
Mistress Ayn,

I am glad this topic has piqued your interest and thank you for your candid and insightful response (as usual).

I think some subs/masos have more intense in-session subspace than I do. In another thread I remarked that someone who has thrashed me a great deal over the years once said she doesn't know what dimension some of her other customers are in sometimes. She said she was glad that I am not one of "those guys".

I never had acupuncture.

I have played from the Top on occasion (quite a lot during one phase). The pre-session version of that is only subtly different from pre-session subspace except that I never experienced it at the very intense level I sometimes experienced with subspace. The difference is more apparent during the session. There are no endorphins when you're giving. The first dozen or so times I topped there was a strong glow afterwards (very different from post session subspace) but that got old fairly quick and so that afterglow effect became weaker and weaker. Which is one reason why I eventually went back to being mostly a sub/maso.

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#2532 - 07/24/17 10:50 PM Re: Flavors of Subspace [Re: teddymishka]
The Thomas Offline
member

Registered: 10/20/15
Posts: 143
I never tried needles. In another thread I mentioned that I went through a "Try new things" phase. There was one particular mistress who was very important in that phase discussed with me a list of things she hadn't yet done to me but wanted to do. Some of those items were performed but needles was on my "soft limits" list which means something like, "A day may come when someone will do XYZ to me---but not this day"

I have experienced single-tail but only 4 times IIRC. Mixed results

In my reply to Mistress Ayn I said that some experience a deeper in-session subspace than I do. You are one of those

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#2533 - 07/25/17 06:36 AM Re: Flavors of Subspace [Re: The Thomas]
teddymishka Offline
stranger

Registered: 01/21/16
Posts: 20
The Thomas my only advice with these two things is to enjoy the experience you must be with a very experienced practitioner who can guide you through it with pleasure or with pain. I happen to enjoy both ends of that. I also failed to mention that in some of those sessions the Mistress experienced incredible Top space that lasted for hours and the drop they feel after can be quite intense if they are not used to it.

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#2537 - 07/26/17 02:52 AM Re: Flavors of Subspace [Re: The Thomas]
Luke Cage Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/26/16
Posts: 25
Loc: NY, Philly, LA
Although I've sessioned a couple of dozen times, and have been amazingly lucky at finding very kinky girlfriends, I still consider myself almost a virgin. Hence, my personal concepts of flavors of dominance and subspace are fairly basic...

1) Physical intimidation: the impression that a domme is even capable of inflicting harm upon me, especially dommes with impressive builds (tall or muscular), really freaks me out. To paraphrase Hitchcock, it's the anticipation of the bang that does it. When I first started BDSM, I mainly did wrestling sessions, so the inherent physicality of the domme is kind of a thing. Bondage helps to accentuate the intimidation, as does breath play.

2) Pain: moderate levels of pain clearly do it to me. Pain applied by a domme is a turn-on, in itself. I'm better with thuds than stings. In fact, the power, rhythm, and relentlessness of floggers does something really profound to me.

3) Sexual dominance: this one is obvious, as in T&D, and in the feeling of exposure and vulnerability. This, as I described in another thread, can even happen in a strip club. Many of us guys are pretty simple that way. LOL!

4) Emotional/Intellectual/Intimate domination: This one is really, really hard to for me to pin down, but it's the ultimate. This is when there's a high degree of chemistry, but involves subtle things like tone of voice, eye contact, physical proximity, and perhaps intuition. This is where experienced dommes have a HUUUUGE advantage over others, in how you do things, versus what you do. For me, this wavelengths is a portal to all kinds of kink. Like...did I just worship her feet? Was I just violated? Did she just shower me? I've wound up doing things I never imagined, once induced on this frequency.

Physical intimidation, pain, and sexuality each send me into subspace rather quickly, but they typically have somewhat shorter effects. The emotional and intellectual aspects of dominance seem to build more slowly, but once established, are far more intense, and last quite a while. Even months (okay, pathetic admission: years) later, certain triggers can make me flushed, and send me into a state of longing.

That's what I'm "here" for!
_________________________
Ever wonder why superheroes keep getting captured and tortured?

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#2542 - 07/26/17 08:51 PM Re: Flavors of Subspace [Re: Luke Cage]
The Thomas Offline
member

Registered: 10/20/15
Posts: 143
That was a very well thought out response, Luke. Thanks for the insights you shared. My submissive as opposed to masochistic aspects do indeed depend a great deal on chemistry.

Wrestling is another session activity I have never done. If when I am in one of my "your fantasy is my fantasy moods" (the exception not the rule with me) and the Domme were to say that she wanted to wrestle then I would be more than happy to wrestle.

You brought up T&D so I am going to use this as an excuse to go off on a little bit of a tangent. In the last year I have dredging up some of my BDSM related memories (partially because of this forum) I used to think that my first experiences were Spanko but then I remembered that before any of those I did some T&D. It was not with a pro Domme though. There was this massage parlor which strictly prohibited penetrative sex but you could get a pretty good handjob at the end of the massage. I instructed my favorite there to essentially edge me (though I wasn't familiar with the term back then) but not let me cum. She thought it was a little bit strange at first but complied.

This place had paper thin walls and one time we could hear the lady in the room next door spanking her customer while yelling at him pretending to be his mother.

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#2552 - 07/28/17 02:20 AM Re: Flavors of Subspace [Re: The Thomas]
AspX Online   content
enthusiast

Registered: 07/08/16
Posts: 220
Loc: Detroit
So... I read this when you first posted it Thomas and I've just been too busy with other things to get on here and reply to a great topic and post.

Originally Posted By The Thomas
The word "subspace" gets bandied about a great deal. While there is no doubt that it is a very real experience I believe it is not a singular phenomenon that differs merely in intensity. Instead I believe it comes in a variety of different flavors.


I generally agree with this assessment as I have experienced two different flavors (as you put it) with one of them actually having two different intensities that are very different but I still consider them to be of the same flavor.

Originally Posted By The Thomas
Many of my sessions produce at least 4 different types of Subspace.

First there is presession subspace. Strange as it may sound the two most intense episodes of subspace that I have ever experienced were thinking about the session before it started. In both instances I couldn't sleep which ironically had a negative impact on the session. My neurochemical speculation is that this is mostly a combination of testosterone and adrenaline. For those less maso and more subby the vasopressin plus oxytocin combo probably plays a part.


I love the anticipation, planning, prep and ritual of my pre-session experiences... especially when a Domme places me under their control and provides instruction prior to our meeting. I actually enjoy it when I have to make a long drive to a session (meaning several hours) because of that anticipation and fully devoted thought. When I have the proper time to prepare, I even focus on breathing exercises and relaxation techniques to help drive myself into the proper headspace when I walk in the door (and doing some type of "service" like picking up a small gift, flowers or even coffee helps with this activity).

However, I cannot say any of the feelings that I have had pre-session has ever reached what I consider to be subspace. I definitely know that I neither feel the effects of testosterone or adrenaline pre-session but I am also not a maso or into humiliation. I can't speak to either vasopressin or oxytocin because I don't understand how those present themselves in my body.

Originally Posted By The Thomas
Then there is session subspace. Added to the chemicals that produce presession subspace there are the endorphins. This is where I think maso subspace differs from other subspace.

In many CP sessions there is a bifurcation of my consciousness into one part of me that wants it to end and another part that wants it to continue. When the session is over there is what I call immediate post session subspace. This is the most different flavor of subspace. It is a strong feeling of relief and relaxation. In its most intense forms it is like the world has been recreated anew. My speculation is this involves GABA and serotonin.


Endorphins can be a great part of my subspace if released slowly throughout the session, but it is also the thing that can totally kill a session for me. Endorphin release is the thing that will make me call RED rather than the actual sensation of pain which I can generally endure. The problem is that I am hypersensitive to endorphin rushes and it makes me physically ill when it happens. Basically I get extremely queasy and will come close to puking or passing out (along with the attendant "turning white" and "flop sweat").

When released slowly through CP/NT/Electrical or even as part of a "runner's high" from the physical stress of a session endorphins do meld with the subspace I am feeling. However, my normal subspace comes from a complete and almost meditative focus on the sensations being driven into me by the Domme. Therefore, I think the post session subspace that you describe is actually my session experience and the chemical components are more likely the GABA and serotonin that you identified.

In my experience there is normal subspace where I am unable to really think and I don't have total control over my body. But, when it changes to the more intense form it is like I am dropped over a precipice and literally everything falls completely away. Basically the only way to describe it is that I feel completely and ridiculously stoned. Generally, I can't even walk or stand in this state and have no ability to speak at all. This can occur when I am not even experiencing torture or pain so I can't say it is when the endorphins meld with everything, but it is the type of high I believe that heroin brings you so it may be associated more with dopamine than endorphins.

However, the other flavor of subspace that I have only experienced once was even more devastatingly awesome than what I have described. The only way I can describe it is tantric in nature rather than the completely dulling pleasure of the other flavor I naturally feel during a session. I don't know about any specific chemical basis for this but have seen references to DMT (although these references seem unscientific and confused since in most cases since they touch on psychedelic drugs, tantra and near-death experiences).

Originally Posted By The Thomas
And lastly there is next day subspace. Having trouble sitting the next day can once again arouse erotic feelings though still with a tinge of contentment that is hard to explain to someone who is not a maso.


I am not a maso so I can't understand this "dipping back in" by the reminders of pain although I do experience contentment and a general sense of well-being after a session until something breaks it. Sometimes subspace can linger for a long time afterwards for me (up to a couple of days). This is especially true when I have time to allow it to breathe and settle in after the session (having a long drive home is awesome for this) or if I am given post-session tasks/instructions so I feel I am still "in service" and under the control of the Domme even if there is no physical proximity. Again, for me, testosterone has no role in this feeling (although it does if the instruction is to "complete" for the Domme... in which case, testosterone plays a part in that activity).
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#2553 - 07/28/17 02:50 AM Re: Flavors of Subspace [Re: Mistress Ayn]
AspX Online   content
enthusiast

Registered: 07/08/16
Posts: 220
Loc: Detroit
Originally Posted By Mistress Ayn
I have experienced what I believe is close to what subs feel in post session subspace. It was after My first acupuncture session. I felt that extreme relaxation and contentment you talk about, to such an extent that I didn't trust Myself to drive for about an hour. It actually took eating a snack to bring Me back down to earth.


I get this feeling in session sometimes and it is that deeper subspace I described in my reply to Thomas (and to shortcut that for your understanding, its what happens when I stop shaking).

Originally Posted By Mistress Ayn
Of course, there is Domme Space and that's very hard for Me to describe. There are two distinctly different feelings for Me. One is during session. The best way I can describe it is a connection with the sub that is possibly empathetic. They appear to be losing themselves and I can make eye contact or make a physical connection that feels like it links Me to them and I get this dreamy, euphoric feeling that is just hard to describe. I have also become light headed in extreme S&M sessions and feel an irresistible need to lay hands on the sub (usually on the chest or back) and create a physical energy loop. It's really quite amazing.

Then there is a post session buzz where My body literally feels like it is tingling or humming. My best guess is that it is adrenaline because it will give Me the ability to go right into the next session without any energy drop and sometimes I have to watch Myself because My energy level may be higher than the new sub's.


My experience in Domspace is exactly what you describe except in an opposite way. What you have as post session, I get during play as the connectivity between myself and the sub solidifies and we become O/one. It is absolutely an adrenaline rush as I am hyper aware of everything and my brain is firing at speeds that are hard to calculate as I own and manipulate the sub how I want in the effort to fulfill their needs and my own. It is just as you describe it. A definite humming that jumps off my skin and drives me forward. I have literally played for 36 hours straight in what feels like a blink of an eye because of this energy with the reason it was over being outside forces rather than wanting to stop.

For me, however, it is the dreamy euphoric feeling that comes post session but it is still tinged with that hum. Like what Thomas described as his next day experience, little things can totally put me back into the same place where I literally can't stop smiling from the buzz of it all. Domspace like this usually lasts several days for me after a good scene but the crash is just nasty as hell.

For me, there is literally no comparison between the two. Subspace is an incredibly joyful and wonderful experience that makes me all calm, fuzzy and happy inside... but Domspace is muthaf**kin AWESOME and that feeling is what the greatest moments in life are about.
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#2555 - 07/28/17 08:40 PM Re: Flavors of Subspace [Re: AspX]
The Thomas Offline
member

Registered: 10/20/15
Posts: 143
Aspx,

Thanks for taking the time to share. We have quite a few differences. I really don't recall my ability to think being seriously impaired during a session.

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